In the Room: When Your Research and Your Future Come Into Focus

What happens when a doctoral learner steps into the room with the very people they’re studying?

In this episode, doctoral learner Sandra Salazar-Colon shares how attending a higher education conference during her data collection phase became a turning point in the way she viewed her research, but also her identity as a scholar and future leader. What began as an effort to recruit participants turned into an experience of connection, affirmation, and renewed purpose.

Together, we explore the realities of data collection, the power of proximity to your research population, and how moments outside the dissertation document can reshape confidence, clarity, and direction. If you’re feeling stuck, isolated, or wondering whether the dissertation truly matters beyond graduation, this conversation will remind you why it does—and why you do.

Transcript

Welcome to Dissertating In the Trenches and Behind the Scenes, the podcast where we bring real stories from real doctoral learners straight to you at the mic. I'm your host, Tiffany Anne Mondine, and today I have the pleasure of sitting with someone who is living the dissertation experience in real time. My guest today is Sandra Salazar, who is ⁓ currently in the data collection phase of her doctoral program.

Recently, she had the opportunity to experience a national conference filled with leaders in higher education where she situates her own study at this time. So I want to include you today in this conversation. I was really excited about some of her takeaways. And so I'm really excited for her to share some of those today.

So, Sandra, hi, how are you? are you? I'm good. wow. Thank you so very much for meeting with me today. I'm really excited. I feel like you're going to bring a breath of fresh air, answer a lot of questions for a lot of people that they may not even realize that they had. So, let's start here first. I'm interested. What is your dissertation topic I'm doing it on

ethical leadership skills in higher education. And the topic, what is a qualitative study? I'm just trying to figure out if institutions do implement it in their professional development ethics. And if they do, is it working or not working? And if it's not working, what is not working? And what recommendations they have for me

or how they wish the institution goes about things. And if this working, then I also want to know how it's working. So I could share that with other institutions that maybe you will think it's a great idea to implement those ideas. Excellent. So you started data collection when? I was approved in June, late spring. Okay. And so you're still in data collection right now? No. Okay.

⁓ awesome. I finished data collection last week, Saturday. And ever since I've been doing the drafts and the analysis and organizing things together. So. That's amazing. I love that progress. Always we have to celebrate the progress. That's amazing. months of trying to get it. But I was able to. I mean, I didn't count for attrition, but I got it done.

I mean, the wheels fall off as some people have said to me before the wheels fall off during data collection. You plan and plan and plan and you just can't possibly. It's the plan for every experience that you may have during this time you decided to.

attend a particular conference. What was that conference name? Yes, so it was at Montclair, New Jersey. And it was called Navigating the Storm. Because basically, higher education had taken a hit over the last couple years. And part of the most of the sessions were about how to improve leadership, about AI.

policies and procedures, there was an actual workshop on ethics and how to improve their numbers because a lot of them are losing a lot of students. And I had the opportunity to be invited to the conference because I'm collecting data from this association. What's the association? American Association of University Administrators.

Okay. And I've been approved for a while when I was finally able to get, I mean, it took me about three years to get to the IRB process. know, chapters one and two, three are very hard. But once I navigated that, I was ready to collect data. The arrangement was that my flyer was gonna go through their newsletter, monthly newsletter, once I get approved with IRB and I get

all that information to them, the paperwork. And it was in the summer, you know, was, it was June and I didn't get anything in June, didn't get anything in July, didn't get anything in August. So then I was like, okay, now it's September, fall is here, school has started. You might please send in another flyer for September and October. And once,

⁓ She was like, yeah, the CEO, was like, yeah, got no issue helping you with that. And then that's when I received an email saying that they have their ⁓ upcoming conference in October that she had discussed it first with her members to make sure that, you know, it's not a conflict of interest. It was going to affect them. It was not going to affect my dissertation. And she copied my chair to make sure that

I would, she was okay me going to the conference. And she said she will love for me to attend, see how it goes. She is interested in my study. She said, so I know how the conference go because if I graduate by next year, I could present my findings in the conference. And she will also like me to publish with their journal of higher education management. So I...

was very honored. I did not expect so much. I just wanted to get, you know, participants. My chair said it was okay just to go make sure I go as a non-member. So no confidence or interest. And I do have to say it was not in the budget to go. But during the conference, I was taught that

Other students can go to conferences. You could go to local ones. That way you don't have to pay for, know, flights, hotels and all this. But this one happened to be in New Jersey and I live in Chicago. So I was scared. I shared with my husband. He's like, you need to do this. Share with my mother-in-law. She's like, this is a great opportunity. You would think it's expensive, but it will pay off in the long run. I'm glad I listened.

My husband ended up driving with me so we could save a little bit of the budget and maybe company on the road and that helped a lot. And I was welcomed the first day with open arms. The CEO was super happy to see me. She introduced me to the board, talked about my study. They're interested in me once I graduate to join them as a member to help out.

⁓ renew the website because they also have a code of ethics, but it's a little outdated and based on what I've learned to help them improve that. and she also communicated to make sure that I was okay also publishing with them and presenting. Wow. I was very like, very thankful and she wants me to eventually volunteer. So I'm like, okay, I guess I'll do one thing at a time because

I was introduced by so many opportunities and I was not expecting that. I was just expecting to go learn from it, from all this workshops network because I have lost my own networking. I stopped my career about 10 years ago and from higher out. First it was because I'm married military man and we had to move and then I had my son who requires a little bit more care, he has special needs.

I decided to put it on hold, I'm ready to go back once I graduate. And once I was doing data collection, because the other part of my data was also to reach out to colleagues via LinkedIn. And a lot of those colleagues have either retired or moved on to a different field. So my field had gotten smaller. So the idea was for me to create my network again, and start from zero. And I've been doing that through LinkedIn through the conference.

I'm sorry, I my son. Give me one second. He was supposed to go with that, but he wants to stay with mom. We do things as doctoral learners, right? We balance. We had to juggle, yes. And my husband said, this is the way for you to get it because they're not looking at the newsletters. I'm like, not many people read the newsletters. They're just members.

So that gets, and this is what the CEO also said, it gives me the opportunity to get to know my colleagues and to see what they do and how things have changed over the years. And I have learned in 10 years, higher ed has changed a lot when it comes to technology and the way they recruit students and admissions and all that. So it was a refresher to be able to get on my feet wet, to know what to expect once I'm ready to join the field again.

Wow, that's very interesting that you found, I mean, it makes sense. You've been out of the field for a while, as you said. But I don't know that I would have walked into that space thinking, it's been a while, therefore things have dramatically changed. And I might find that this is not as familiar as I it was originally thinking.

How did that feel when you realized, wow, this is really different than what I experienced in the past? Yeah, I was just, I just sat there the first day I came in. I was looking for the CEO, but I hadn't seen her. Then I see these tables and people talking to each other. And I'm like, I don't know anybody here. Where am I going to sit? And you know, I'm an introvert. But my husband had helped me, you know, to not be so much of an introvert, to get out of my shell a little bit. So I saw this one girl.

⁓ in one of the tables by herself. So I asked, hey, can I sit here? You seem alone and I don't know anyone. She's like, I don't know anyone either. So yes, I guess it's my first conference. Have you been here before? She's like, no, it's my first two. I'm like, great. So it's gonna be our first experience together. So she's like, yeah. Later on, I told her I was an intro. I'm like, you don't look like an introvert because introverts don't approach people because I am an introvert. But after I sat there, other people,

another person, was his first time as well, and his first time as a member asked to join us. And then we had talked to other people. So that was nice. And there was one of them who actually been at the conference last year, because they started last year, the first conference. They've been at, the association has been out for a while, but they're very small. And they've been growing a little bit. And now they're doing the conferences. So this is like conference number two. And she's playing like how it goes. So she gave me more or less like,

guidance what to expect. So when it was time to go to workshops, I thought it was just, you know, they're pen and paper, look at PowerPoint slides and learn. No, they actually make you get into groups. This introverted who knows nobody, have to work in groups. And a lot of them were very, I would just sit there and a lot of them were like, no, come, come to my group. And I'm like, okay, you know.

And a lot of them were based on dependent on the class, they will give us scenarios and how their institution would have do a certain scenario. And I will provide feedback, but sometimes I'll be like, hey, I've been out of the field, but this is what I used to do. And they didn't mind I was out of the field. They went and talked about how they're doing things now in their institution. So I was happy to learn that they didn't look down on me because I don't know much anymore.

but they wouldn't tell me, this is what we do. And kind of like help me grow in that area again. To tell me like, this is what you should expect when you go to institutions and how each institution treats things. So it also gives me ideas for my data because every institution have their own way of, and I learned this through my data collection, success is defined different by our institution. So it depends on the needs of the institution. That's what they need.

to succeed for that need. So I was very, I felt very inclusive because I'm here as a non-member and yet they welcomed me like I was a member. And this went with a lot of the sessions. There was one time the last day where the groups had already made it and I was just still sitting by myself. There was just two men in the front.

I was all the way to back. I don't know. It's like they saw me or something with their, they had eyes in the back or something. I'm like, they have some kind of magnet. They turned around this thing. I know they're sitting with me and they're like, want to work with you. And I was like, ⁓ thanks. And I started talking to them and I'm like, they started talking about what they do. each one had a director, ⁓ position. And I was like, you'd be great for my study. And I started like that.

And then I told them that I was out of the field and they're like, it's okay. He said, could still do this answers. So they will tell me what they will do again. And when it was time to speak up, I was like, well, you guys are more familiar with the subject, so you could speak up. And they're like, okay. But they weren't like, you don't know anything, we're just gonna go to another group now. They stay and work with me. So that was great.

Sounds like a great learning experience as well. What did it feel like to be poured into like that? Say that again? What did it feel like to be poured into when they recognized that you weren't familiar with the most modern way of doing things? Yeah. How did you feel in that moment?

when you realize these people are really investing in you? Actually the first day during reception hour, no, yes, the reception hour, I'm in a table with the girl we met. we kind of went to each, we tried to buddy. So we were going through every session together and she was only there for a day and a half. was one of, she turned out to be the presenter for the next day.

So I it was me. I joined her workshop as well and she had to leave. She had to go back to work. But I stayed through all three days. But the first day of the reception, I'm here sitting with her. And this one lady comes to me and she's like, oh, can I sit here? And I'm like, yeah. I did surely know who I was, but she wanted to know who I was because she ended up being one of the board members. And this is before I met the board members. And.

She's like, oh, so she was asking me and my friend how what draws to the conference. So I'm here explaining the same thing. Like I'm, I was invited by the CEO, my study and all that. And I'm like, yeah, and I already met her and she's very kind. She was amazing with me. And then she's like, and I'm like, and what are you doing here? So she's like, oh, I'm looking forward to moving on. You know, I'm retiring probably in 10 years. And I want to say I want to be promoted, but I'm comfortable where I am.

So I told her, do you want to be promoted within the institution or outside the institution? She's like, I don't know. But I'm looking at that. And then she mentioned that years back when she was a mom, she was a graphic designer. And she stopped working because she had two children.

She wanted to be able to be with the kids at the same time, but daycare was too expensive.

She opened a daycare. So she was able to, you know, take care of her kids for a couple of years when she was ready to go back to work. When she was wanting back to work, nobody wanted to hire her because she had no experience anymore. And that kind of reflects my fear. And that reflected me. I'm like, that's my fear.

who's gonna want to hire me, especially in a higher position that I'm looking for based on me not having experience. So she's like, you know, nobody wanted to hire me. So I ended up getting a position as a secretary. She goes, an interior designer and a secretary position. She's like, but I had to take it. I needed to pay the bills, you know, I needed to take care of my home. So I was like, no, no, I get it. So she said she ended up

Funny, funny thing. She ended up working as a secretary or the CEO of the association where we were at the conference. And she took her under her wing. And when there was this opportunity to raise up to another position, the CEO was like, you're perfect in this position. She's like, yeah, but nobody wants to hire me. She goes, I'll get you there. And she's 30 years later because this person took her under her wings.

And when I told her about these opportunities that the CEO has offered me, she's like, if she's willing to take you under her wings, do it. Because she likes to empower women and make women leaders. And I'm like, she goes, if you see her like that, she's like that every day. It's not a facade because she's in a conference. No, that's what she is. And she goes, and we have to become best friends. And I'm like, thank you for letting me know.

So I feel like she knew who I was, but she wanted to see first what I was gonna say before she wanted to say something. And so that day it meant like, I'm glad I made this decision, you know, to go there because I not only made a connection, but I met someone who was gonna be part of her.

⁓ already association and has and see that potential in me even though i haven't been i've been out yeah that's beautiful and so affirming i i'm sure that that really boosted your confidence level yes my husband told me like ever since this first day the rest of the conference he said that he saw my my motivation change like even me change like the way i speak change and even after i came back he's like

He's like, you look different. Like you look like happier. And I'm like, well, you know, I have put my life on hold. It was a choice for our son, but I didn't know I was ready to go back. And so I went to the meet to the conference. Wow. Wow. Go back to that field. I do want to graduate and start doing that. And by that time, my husband, my husband is close to retiring. So we can figure out a way to.

help with our son together so I could start navigating my field again. Wow. I love your experience and the reflection on this and how not only did you take away new knowledge, new understanding of the field, but that it gave you the confidence to move forward. Like this was a turning point for you.

Where you could start to envision yourself in a different role, a different plane at a different level. That's so encouraging. And I'm sure that the other listeners are taking notes, right? About how that how that shift came about. In this experience. Can you, it didn't clarify any of the research purpose that you have in any way.

It was, but actually it was not just in the conference because when I was thinking about going to the conference, but I wasn't sure because of the budgetary reasons. During that week, because God was talking to me, during my data collection with a couple of my participants, they brought up and say, and even with the office hours at my university, they said, if you have the opportunity to go to conferences, because it has to be far, more local, do that because it puts your name out there.

It makes you hireable. get, people get to know you more. Not only that, another one told me in my particular studies, like, I know when you're done with the dissertation, you want to burn it. You don't want to see it anymore because it's being sweat, tears, you know, and you're done with it. And you want to put it away. You don't want to see it. Don't publish at least one or two journals from it because that will put your name out there. he ended up within the same week.

I'm like, okay, ⁓ I'll do this. And when I went to the conference, I went with like, okay, I want to publish, so let me see how the presentation goes. But I took away more than what I was actually going for. Like I said, I was just going there to learn and to network. And I came up with like, I could do this. could graduate and I could go back to the field.

they know that I am hireable and that this person wants to create a bridge for me to get there. And even the last day when I left, because throughout the conference, every time I would leave during reception hours, she wanted me to be part of the board pictures. And I'm like, but I'm not part of the board. She goes, you'll be in the future. Like she sees so much in me. And I'm like, okay. And then

And one of them, one of the pictures before the pictures is that she goes, you're to become my pupil. Wow. And I'm like, and I told my husband, like I didn't, I didn't talk much during the conference. I just showed up and my husband's like, do you have that attitude with people want to embrace you and want to teach you things? And I'm like, Oh, thanks, hon. But the last day we, we, was leaving, I didn't know she was part of another organization.

So they were taking pictures of the group called HRSS, Higher Education Resources Services. Dr. Thomas, she has an organization where she empowers women to become leaders. And the CEO is part of the board as well. And she was taking a picture with the HRSS group. And I was about to say, help, thank you so much for the opportunity. I gotta go, my husband's waiting outside. We gotta hit the road, it's like a 14 hour drive.

And she's like, before you go, got to take a picture with us. And I was like, okay. And then she's, and then she goes to talk to Dr. Thomas. She's going to become the next hers as well.

So I was like, okay, thank you. Being written for you in the moment. Yeah, so then Dr. Thomas is like, I got it because I had sent her a LinkedIn request the night before because she had sent one on my tables as well at the workshop. So as I meet people, I request them a LinkedIn so I could keep that connection for the dissertation. And she's like, I got your request now. I remember you. I'm going to accept you. I'm like, oh, thank you.

The power of connection. It's huge. It's huge that you only this one person. Yeah, and everybody knows you. That's beautiful. So let's talk a little bit about. Your dissertation and what impact this made. For you currently, do you feel like attending the conference?

made it do you feel like that shaped the way you're looking at your data and interpreting it now in any way? No, I actually confirm the way I was looking at my data. tell me that. Because that in one of the the first day that I told you that I sat at this table and people joined us at the table, the third person that joined the table, he was talking to the girl who became my friend about

They were talking about like leadership things that they were going through at her institution, at his institution. And I'm just here like listening. And they were kind of like a little bit frustrated with certain situations of leadership. And this is why I was able to step in and bring my study. So I was like, you know, sometimes leaders don't mean to do those kinds of decisions. You know that, right? And they're like, what do you mean?

I'm like, well, I'm a doctoral student and I'm doing a dissertation on ethical leadership. And what I have found out in my research is that sometimes the pressure of making decisions right in the spot because they don't have time to think about things and they just have to make it because they don't, the bosses is like, you need to do this now because of the pressure. Sometimes they make decisions they don't want to make, or sometimes they think they make the right decisions and later on they find out it's not. It's just, it's just how, what the job brings sometimes it's like make decisions on the spot and then he's, and then.

Amanda was there, he's like, well, that's why I will tell my boss, I'm not gonna make a decision right now. I need three months to make sure I'm making the right decision. I'm like, yeah, but sometimes you don't have three months. All right, this is true. So sometimes it's not the leader itself, it's just the situation at the moment and they had to react and sometimes.

they don't have time to think. unfortunately, sometimes they do make the right decisions and sometimes they don't. And that's how it affects the organization and how the employees look at it. And they're like, that is true. So I'm like, so even though they have to make a decision, be nice if they at least have a little bit of time to think about things and not do things on pressure. Because when things happen on pressure, sometimes they don't turn out well. And then...

They're like, tell me what about your study? I explained a couple of C2, a couple of participants who they're not happy, well they are. I had a person who cried, I had two that cried during my interviews. One was not so happy tears and the other was happy tears. And I just told them too, it's perspective as well.

that every employee had different needs and their perspective of ethics is different than the other person. And what I have learned about in the last focus group was boundaries, expectations, and you had to let your employees know this is what I, this is the boundaries, this is what I expect from you and you had to clarify things for them. So they understand what the institution needs, but they also understand that they're being respected.

with them, but that there's always a expectation for them to do their job. So it's about communication with them. And I was like, and unfortunately, know, sometimes leaders take the power too seriously to the point that they look down on their employees, as employees, not as a team. And that's what happened.

to the one participant because she will go to a meeting and in one of the meetings, her boss would be like, she wanted to give her feedback and she's like, you're not here for feedback, you're a guest in this meeting. You're just here to sit and write notes kind of thing when she is part of the institution. You know? And then the other person,

had a similar situation where she now is in a different institution. She pardoned for that institution for that reason. And now she has a boss who's very inclusive, who wants her feedback, who asks her questions. And at first she was like, wait, you want to hear from me? Really? And she said she was traumatized. She thought that the way things went was when she was there. And now she's in this company where she's being seen and seeing her potential.

And she was crying because she goes, is crazy. Why am I crying? And I told her because you you were, you thought that you weren't valued and now you are. And she's like, know. then I'm like, that had also affect the way she leads because if you're not valued, if you're, if you're used to what you've been taught and you don't know anything else, you carry that as a leader yourself.

So indirectly, you're also affecting your employees. Some of them have said that they've that and some of them have said, you know, I learned better and I have become better because of those situations. And other ones because they have pardoned the institution and have left to other ones who are more open to them that they have become better as well for their team. It's a ripple effect.

You know?

So, I mean, I, I love how you talk about this connection. And just amazed at. I mean, first of which you went for the purpose for networking. Right. And oftentimes I think we can sit in these spaces.

for two different reasons, one to gain information, but one another to network. And that was the purpose of it. But you came out with so many beautiful connections. one of the things that I really love about your story is this forward looking idea that Sandra is gonna be a different person.

After the research and that different person didn't have to wait until the research was done, but you're really adopting that new persona that new. Identity now is what I gather. So I think that it's beautiful that you were able to make these connections.

how do you think that that is influenced your sense of identity as a future scholar scholar or practitioner? Yeah, like I said, it's it's been a long journey. I've been doing my dissertation for five and a half years. I thought I was going to do it in three and a half years. But, you know, life happens.

I had three change of chairs, three change of methodologies. So every time there's a change, you'll fall behind a little bit because you got to get to know these individuals and all that. But right now I have a great team. And it's been such a long time that I didn't know I was going to get to this point. There were so many times I want to quit. And when I finally got IRB approval, I like, yes, I made it. And then I wasn't getting anybody that whole summer.

So I'm here sitting down trying to get participants waiting for three months. And when I was giving to go ahead to start recruiting on my own through LinkedIn, then I get my time that I need for interviews. But then I'm still here again waiting for focus groups because it's hard to schedule them together. And so it's just always a moving and stopping, moving and stopping.

And it got to a point that I just told my husband, I'm tired of being stuck or feeling stuck because just when I think I'm moving, I'm stuck.

So even though it made me look at my data and confirm that I was doing the right data, because a lot of people sounded interested, even my participants are like, well, we can't wait to see your study. It's very unusual. It made me feel like I could do this. And now that I got, and I finished last, and I thought I could, and then I got stopped for focus group, because I told my husband, I'm not getting people.

Eventually, and then I started losing some participants because they got tired of waiting for me to figure out the timings because everybody has different times. Time zones are busy, I get it. But when I finally finished on Saturday and I thank my participants for being the last group, I felt a weight off my back. And then as soon as I started seeing all this information, I'm like, now I could do this.

So now I'm putting all the hours I can trying to make up for lost time. My husband is like, you gotta slow down too. You don't wanna burn yourself, know? Because you're gonna get there. But sometimes you do need the light at the end of the tunnel that tells you you're almost there. And I was told by several participants, oh, you're in chapter four. Once you do chapter four, things just starts running smoothly. But I didn't see it running smoothly because I was still stuck in data collection.

So when you think chapters one, three were challenge, data collection is a challenge. Especially when you had to rely on individuals' times because they're doing this for you as a way to help you. So you had to be very flexible, even on Saturdays. My last interview wasn't on a Saturday. My other focus group was on Veterans Day. So you had to give up some holidays.

some weekends to be able to do this. But once you do it, now I feel like, well, maybe I do graduate probably by next year. Like, because people kept asking me when I was doing data collection, so when do you graduate? I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? I'm like, I always said next year in two years and you're having a five and a half year later. But I could actually say, I think my next year, hopefully, by fall next year I'll be graduated.

I think for me, I gone through the field test and that for me was a spark of light. Like, I was still writing chapters one, two and three, still doing revisions and everything else when I did my original field test. think I didn't, I do not believe I started collecting data for probably another year after doing my initial field test.

But looking back at it, was, it just gave me a glimpse that this is worthy what I'm doing. And I'm getting evidence and feedback that's affirming that I'm doing the right thing. And sometimes we need to have that moment, right? And I think you experienced it a couple of times. I

Yay, one through the three are going through it to the committee. And then, my gosh, there's so many revisions. Yay, we've got it, you know, it's going to the quality assurance. And now we've got more revisions. Yay, I get to defend my proposal one, two and three. And now it's, you know, you have, I call it all also a false summit,

this process is filled with those ups and downs, right? It's just, it's just part of the process. So I'm curious as.

because I know that you kind of described a little bit about this period of being stuck. Was that when you decided to go to the conference at a point where you felt stuck? Yeah, so this is one in September because, I mean, it kind of helped out that it was during the summer because I had my son home. So it kind of helped me take care of him more because he would, like, as you can see today, he'll, you know.

Bombard my meetings. But yes, it's September and I still have no participants and it's been three months. And that's when this opportunity was like, well, I gotta do what I gotta do. I gotta be proactive. I need participants. And yes, I don't wanna invest on it. I don't have the money right now, but like I had so many people cheering on me and said,

is gonna, this opportunity doesn't come every day. You will see it on the long run, it's gonna pay for itself in one way or another. So I went for that in desperation. And the fact that I was able to get through LinkedIn, so that was already giving me like, okay, I'm already getting participants, but I need to get all this more and I wanna make up for time. But when I talked to other people who had gone through the process, some of them says it took six months for them. And so that meant,

way to even more. For the six person one, month person one, he's like, wasn't that, it wasn't that put in focus group together. That was easy. It's just my criteria was very specific. So at the end of the day, he ended up working out something with his chair where the chair is like less lowered the number of participants and let's make it work. And that's how he was able to finish.

because she saw him like at a six month mark and she's like, we cannot be waiting this long anymore. We need to move you forward. The other person from the conference, was recommended a focus group like I was, because outside of, he goes, what are you doing? So am I doing interviews and focus groups? And he's like, I did all my interviews. I'm like, well, I'm like, I had to do focus. He's like, who told you that? And I'm like, my methodologist told me to do that.

for better reliability of the study. So he's like, you know, I came up with a good claim that I didn't need focus groups and it was so good that they accepted it and then just let me do interviews. And then I'm like, I got what you're saying, but that means I will have to come out with something. And then I have to go through the IRB process again to get approved. And I'm already here. Right. But I'm like, do I really want more work?

when I was trying to move forward. So he's like, well, I'm just telling you, a dissertation, a good dissertation, a dissertation done. I'm like, yeah, I heard that one before. But thank God I didn't have to go through that. I was able to get, you know. That's, mean, and we all come to that moment, right? I know I experienced it. know lots of people experience it. Like you're, you're chugging the ride along through, chug, chug, chug, chug, chug. And then you get inserted some feedback from somebody else.

like you experienced where he's like, ⁓ just try to do just interviews. But at this point in time, you've got, you know, other things to consider. everybody's comes with great intentions when they want to give us advice. Right. And they want to share their experiences. And even as you're talking, I'm just my head is reeling with the number of ways that we can compare our studies to other people.

and everybody's got a different level of opinion. As the researcher, we, we have to stop and say, what does that mean for me though? And to your point, you're like, I'm already in the mix of this. When.

We have to then lean into the decision of, I'm at a crossroads. You've given me great advice, but does that fit with where I'm at? So tell me a little bit more,

was there a moment where you said, maybe this really is the way to go? Yes. So I also mentioned to him that I was at office hours from a university and that they had mentioned that there's this website called for interviews where you pay for the website to find you.

Participants and they actually select the pool you need. And I just told them, I don't want to pay any more for stuff. Like in dissertation, I've been playing for Zoom. I've been playing for Calendly, for like paraphrasing things, know, Grammarly. I'm like, I have paid for all these things and I'm already paying for this conference. Like how much more can I pay when I'm not working? So.

It goes, I'm like, but that would be an option. And he's like, and that's when he goes to me to goes, said, going back to that, if he's going to get you people and you want to get it done, then, you know, a dissertation, good dissertation, a dissertation done. And I thought, I'm like, you know, if it gets to that, then I'll be willing to switch to that. And I mean, I will have to make some modifications, but I will wait to see what happens after this. And then I'll go from there. But I did consider it.

And I was gonna bring it to my chair because I started class like two and a half weeks later. And I needed to start working on chapter four. How can I work on chapter four if I don't have the data? When I was about to bring it to her to do the changes, but I had an idea first of like, I do have the participants. It's just, I cannot meet the six to eight people. Because the one that the first time I actually had the interview,

I had six of them interview and two of them cancel. And one of them did not even confirm yet, but when I had to cancel, she pulled out. Wow. She said that, you know, her agenda was getting too busy and that she doesn't see time for her to commit to a two hour interviews because focus groups take two hours. And some of them said to me two hours, one hour is already too much, two hours, way too much.

And I was just telling my husband, I don't know what to do. And I stopped touching my dissertation for like a few days. I needed to recharge. And then once I was ready, I came back and I did it again. I did a voting thing because one of the, I did get good feedback from some of the participants who had been where I am. They're like, you were giving people too many dates to vote on. So you need to narrow it down to at least two or three days. So when I came back,

I realized, Veterans Day is coming. Some people don't work and during the day might work. And then there's a Saturday coming. So I put three dates. I put a Friday, a Saturday and veterans, two of them look promising. I went into my chair. got four on each. I don't have the six to eight. She's like, go for them. I'm like, can I make a third group? She goes, you don't need to. You always can count for attrition because you had attrition in the first group anyways.

I went for it. I ended up having five and six. No way. Yeah. So I got people last minute,

So I ended up having out of 25 participants, 21 participants. That's amazing. And to think, you almost gave it up. You almost gave it many times.

I love the way you walked through this journey because I know it's not been easy, I know very few people, if any, who would tell me this is an easy journey, this is one of the things that makes your story so relatable. But I love the fact that you took the

You took the leap to go and explore something that was a uncomfortable as an introvert, something unfamiliar because you haven't been in the field for a while and You gave wind to the potential. Internal critic that could have possibly gotten in your way and and I really appreciate

that you've leaned into every moment where it could have become where it was hard and you could have just given up. based upon your experiences with the conference and the data collection piece, what advice would you offer to someone who might feel stuck or isolated or even unsure of how what every does any of this even matter in my future world?

Does any of this even matter? What advice would you give to them? One advice that I have received, so I could share the advice that I have received, is yes, I've been here for five and a half years. I heard of people who've been there for six, seven, one of them took nine years. It's just perseverance. might, things we had, things planned out coming from a task-oriented person who likes her life organized in a certain way. No.

does not react well to chaos. You could tell that to my husband, who's very well at reacting to chaos. I have to learn to pivot.

not only in school, but as a military wife, when you move, have to pivot a lot because sometimes the move don't go according to plan. So I think the military have already prepared me a little bit to learn how to pivot during dissertation. Yes, it's okay to cry. We need to stop for a little bit like I did a few times because I'm demotivated. Take a couple of days to yourself, three days.

And when you feel like your brain is reset and refreshed, come back and sit down and look things a different way. That's how I did it every time I needed to recruit for individuals. Interview was a challenge, but it was more easier because I worked around their schedule. But when it comes to focus groups, it was very much a challenge. It took me probably what, three, four trials until I finally was able to get what I needed.

But it exceeded. Exactly. So it took that couple of times for me to step away for a day or three. My mom will ask me, are you working on a dissertation? No. Why? I told her, I'm not ready yet. know, thank God I was not in class there. Yeah, because if not, I would not have my deadline. But if you can, you know, stop and just take a breather. It helps a lot.

Yeah, that's really, really important. Self-care is huge when we're talking about personal growth of any kind, because you're, again, pouring everything you have into it, and you have to avoid the burnout. So I love your story. Thank you for everything, all that you've talked about today. It was so grounding, honest, with great wisdom, Sandra.

It's a reminder that the journey is so much bigger than the pages that we write. It leads to not only is it in the moment, right? And the transformation that's happening on paper, but also internally to prepare us for the next stage, whatever that stage may be, there is absolutely growth that happens in this process that I think is beautiful. So as we close today,

Is there anything else that you want to add that maybe we haven't discussed yet? One thing I learned in this class, my chapter four class, was my chair said that she learned this from her chairs, that the dissertation involves a lot of moving parts. It's not just, you know, focus on this. We need to focus on multiple things, you know, and it's just following the process and listen to your committee. They're there for you.

and if they're not there for you, then you need to fight for a new committee like I did. I had to do it a couple of times. And now I have a great committee who are always cheering for me. And you need that because this is not for the faint. Oh no, it's not. Thank you so very much for your courage. I appreciate it.

To everyone listening, thank you for joining us for another episode of Disciplining in the Trenches and Behind the Scenes. If today's conversation resonated with you, please subscribe, share the episode with somebody who needs the encouragement, and stay tuned for more real stories from real scholars. And if you're interested as a student in sharing your experiences,

Not only would I like to hear it, but I think the population at large would like to hear it. And I know Sandra would absolutely able to hear it as well. We'll keep cheering for you. Keep writing. Keep moving forward and keep dissipating