The Question Beneath the Question

Most doctoral learners don’t leave because they aren’t capable. They leave because something deeper has gone unnamed.

In this reflective conversation, Dr. John Wade and I explore what lies beneath the research question, such as misaligned expectations, identity shifts, feedback fatigue, and the quiet tension between persistence and purpose.

We discuss why the dissertation phase feels different from coursework, how meaning sustains momentum, and why staying with a hard question can shape who you become.

If you’re in the trenches questioning your progress, your topic, or yourself, this episode invites you to pause and consider the question beneath the question.

Transcript

Dr. TiffianyAnn (00:00)
welcome to Dissertating In the Trenches and Behind the Scenes. I have today with us Dr. John Wade. where are you coming from let me let you introduce yourself.

Dr. John Wade (00:11)
Yup, coming to you from right this second, I'm in Tennessee, but I normally reside up in just north of Salt Lake, Utah

Dr. TiffianyAnn (00:19)
Awesome. Are you vacationing?

Dr. John Wade (00:21)
Yup, came down here to hang out for a few days.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (00:24)
I love that. Tennessee is on my bucket list. I want to run through the woods. And then I saw a documentary on bears. So I've, you know, maybe I pushed it down a little bit. ⁓

Dr. John Wade (00:29)
yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's great. It's

green, very green here. It does rain quite a bit more than I expected it to, which is probably the only thing that I was kind of shocked about Tennessee is it rains quite a bit. I'll say that it's a nice great place.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (00:44)
Okay.

I wouldn't have guessed that.

I love it. So today we're going to talk about the question. I don't think we've crossed paths before, maybe we have. But I posted something somewhere in a group about this podcast and you responded with one word and a question mark. Interesting. I was like.

I need this gentleman to say more. So when we met as a little preliminary kind of conversation, that's what came up was the question. Like I feel like the question is always in the back of our mind. How do I reframe this question? How do I dig into this question? What question do I ask? So let's dig in and talk about what that looks like today. So doctoral learners are often told what

questions to answer, right? But rarely we understand or even are invited to ask what we're asking or is it the right question? So John, when people come to you and ask for advice, what do you notice they're really asking beneath the surface?

Dr. John Wade (01:58)
That's the ultimate million dollar question, So what I tell people, what I learned very quickly about that specific question and how it relates to the doctoral journey slash process, however you want to frame it, is I think they're asking, can I really do this?

It's not for everyone. Let me just say that first and foremost, It's not. There's a lot of gray area to it and there's a lot of commitment needed, which I think most people are probably committed when you get to this level. However, what I don't think and just from my own experience, and I did the ground cohort So I was there every Monday night for two years.

for four hours a night on Monday nights. That was our end for ground cohort. And then we moved into dissertation phase online after that. And just my fellow cohort members, I would say, gosh, we started with 13 of us, I think, 12, 13 of us. And I think all but two of us have finished. And it's...

The journey is, it takes a bunch of people to help you along the way. And I think people are really asking, can I do this? can I persevere through the hard times? Because there will be hard times in this journey. You're gonna get frustrated with yourself. You're gonna get frustrated with your committee. You're gonna wanna quit a thousand times.

so I think really ultimately that that answer boils down to, you know, do I have the support system needed and can I really do it ultimately? Because, you know, I think whatever latest statistics you read, the average doctoral PhD EDD program is, you know, I think what five to six years by the time people finish, you know, their, final defense. And that was what it was for me. Cause I, I know.

Had to go through the COVID years. I got COVID myself, which took me out for, I probably didn't even look at my dissertation file for like almost nine months at one point. Yeah. So I think ultimately that's what they're asking is, can I do it? And that's a great question that people should be asking themselves, honestly, before they put forth the financial commitment and the, and just the time commitment away from your family and all that good stuff.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (04:19)
So it's not a static question, ⁓ this is not a question that you answer once and then you're done. Yep, I know the answer all the way through. So did you ever hit those moments where you had to ask your question again, can I do this?

Dr. John Wade (04:23)
Thank

No.

a hundred times.

Now, where I really asked myself that question a second, a third, fourth, fifth time was when the Methodologists really started ripping apart, you know, chapter four. And yeah, the figure...

Dr. TiffianyAnn (04:50)
The feedback.

Dr. John Wade (04:55)
to this day, like, you know, if I'm helping people, you know, I do a lot of editing on the side for people now. And honestly, people are not ready for the feedback that they get from their methodologist, you know, and I try to like, warn people, hey, this is what's coming. So I'm going to give it to you straight, you know, from my perspective, like, this is what I think you should change or consider changing because

Certainly if you have a great methodologist like I did, they're gonna like do everything they can to make AQR go smoothly for you, right? And I passed AQR on the first try because of the methodologist. Now I absolutely hated it at the time because nothing was ever good enough, right? And so I asked myself the why many times at that point, but you just have to believe in yourself.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (05:42)
Right, right.

Dr. John Wade (05:51)
And, you know, keep persevering and, you know, and then stick up for what you believe in. If you think that you've got it right, and maybe they're just not quite understanding your entire concept correctly. That's one thing. But if you're just completely messing up the statistical analysis, because you don't understand it yet, then that's a whole nother thing, Then you should really listen to the methodologists at that point, So, you know, and for me,

I did a multiple linear regression analysis, then I ended up having to transform all my predictor variables and to try to make the bell curve a little bit better, but ultimately ended up not being able to transform them all. And so I had some assumption violations, but...

The assumption violations that I had lending themselves well to still continuing a regression analysis due to like my population was 300 and something, that I had study. so large data samples lend well to even some minor assumption violations. So I was able to continue with it, but, you know, just went round and around with my methodologist about, and she's like, just trust me. I work with your AQR reviewer every day. I know exactly what she's going to say.

So let's just knock it out now and AQR will go smoothly for you. And when I sent everything in for the final, you know, chapter five was done, like I had like three things, the AQR reviewer wanted changed and that was it. So, and she put me to defense right off the bat. So yeah, you know.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (07:20)
Wow. Yeah.

Yeah.

And it sounds like your finished product was still a student paper in the end

And so that goes back to the done is better than perfect idea,

Dr. John Wade (07:33)
Yeah.

what's the analogy, the enemy of Great is perfectionism or however you want to phrase that, And so, yes, at the end of the day, even when you're done with it you do your final defense, you're still a quote.

you're probably better than a novice, but I would say you're still at the higher end of the amateur phase, And so I go back and I read my dissertation now and I'm like, gosh, why did I write that? You know what I mean? Or how did I not catch that? Or how did my editor not catch that? know what I mean? And it's funny because

Dr. TiffianyAnn (08:03)
⁓ Bold.

Right.

Yep.

Dr. John Wade (08:20)
I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't sleep. And so I threw my dissertation into Chag GPT. And I said, act, yeah, this, this is what you should do with yours. Everybody should do this with theirs. And I said, act as an editor, you know, from Harvard, Yale, whatever have you publications. And I said, you know, assess the dissertation for quality rigor, you know, all that good stuff. And honestly, it came back.

as my strengths were the actual statistical chapter four was a was the major strength of it. And I think he even quoted said it's probably better than 90 % of the other PhD paper, you know, dissertations out there,

But yes, you're still an amateur. You're still a student. You're still learning. I mean, to this day, I go back and I pull up Laird all the time when I'm looking at stuff because I'm writing a follow-up paper to my dissertation right now. I'm having to use a different statistical analysis what I should have used instead of a multiple...

multiple linear regression analysis was a binomial logistic regression analysis, because I have several variables that would be better off studied as categories. But you don't realize that until you're in chapter four and done with chapter four and stuff like that, At that point, it's too late.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (09:29)
Okay.

Dr. John Wade (09:38)
but you know, you put that in the limitation section and you put that as to what future research should focus on, which is what I did.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (09:45)
That's exciting to come back to your work. I want to come back to this idea of the questions that people may be wrestling with. I mean, because I an assumption, I assume that people who quit

in the middle, especially at the dissertation only phase, They're wrestling with something and wrestling with questions that maybe they don't know how to phrase would you agree that they have unanswered questions if they're if they're dropping the process before they're finished?

Dr. John Wade (10:22)
Yes, 100%. I'm working with a person right now who was on the verge of dropping. And when I asked them, you know, why they're like, ⁓ my chair just doesn't understand me. And I never get direct answers back. I'm like, I don't know if you ever will get a direct answer.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (10:45)
Bright?

Dr. John Wade (10:46)
I have said,

let's just go through it. here's what I feel like you need to fix based on, you know, not only their recommendations, but just reading it myself, And having been through the full process, she's just now writing chapter one, but yes, I think,

That is an area of the process that could be improved wholly.

but I don't know.

how to improve that, you know, that might need its own study, by itself because even like when I switched chairs, I still felt that there were times where I'm like, it doesn't really help. You And so I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways, And so I think that can be incredibly frustrating for people who

Dr. TiffianyAnn (11:15)
you

Dr. John Wade (11:35)
maybe went through, especially maybe like I'm a Gen X. So maybe some of the younger generations who are more apt to have been being like more spoon fed information during high school and college versus my generation where, we had to figure it out ourselves. We didn't have Google. We didn't have the internet. We had card catalogs and the Dewey decimal system. Right. And you had to go find a book, hope somebody was having

Dr. TiffianyAnn (11:47)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dr. John Wade (12:02)
have already checked out, And so I think we were just more resilient in that fact. I think potentially that is an issue. And so when they do struggle and they do have the questions and they can't immediately get that self-gratification answer like they're so used to from Google and...

Dr. TiffianyAnn (12:04)
Hey.

Okay.

Dr. John Wade (12:24)
chat GPT, you know what I mean? Or whatever AI thing they're using these days. I think that really frustrates them because they're just all their lives. They've had the answers at right at their fingertips instantly where us older guys, and I'll speak for myself because I'm 52, you know, it's we didn't just take defeat right off the bat, right? We just kept going and kept going and kept going. And I'm a Taurus on top of that.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (12:31)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. John Wade (12:51)
And I grew up in Europe and I grew up in Germany, right? In a small German village. so, yeah, right. And so just stubborn to begin with, right. And then growing up around Germans all my life, they're even more stubborn, right. And so, yeah. And so that's just how I'm wired, right. And just to never give up, know, never cause the, you know, Navy SEALs say don't quit, right. Just persevere. So I think that communication

Dr. TiffianyAnn (12:54)
Okay.

You

Mm-hmm.

Dr. John Wade (13:18)
I think there is a communication gap, honestly, and I would tell any chair this to them directly. I think we need to figure out, you know, how to relate to these different generations that are coming up now, right. And going through this and how to best help them so they don't quit because you went through all that time and energy to write all those papers, answer all those discussing questions, put all that money into it. And then just to quit when you're ABD.

I mean, now I have no doubt there's a ton of ABD people out there who are ABD because they have whatever life reason going on, No, and that's completely understandable. But if it's just because you're frustrated with your committee or your college, then that's something that I think could be overcome.

So

Dr. TiffianyAnn (14:07)
it all starts with the feedback, They gave me feedback and I knew that the feedback was...

I mean, it required change, whatever it was required change. But I didn't have, and part of this is proximity, I didn't have that person sitting right next to me to ask the questions. And so I kept looking at the sentence, and the feedback. And I'm like, it says it right here. And then I started to ask myself, okay,

Why are they asking this question? Why are they giving me this feedback? my approach of this shifted from I can't believe you don't understand what I'm saying. to why doesn't this work? And it was simply the way I said something.

Dr. John Wade (14:47)
Exactly.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (14:53)
When I went back and I looked at it, the way the sentence was structured, this is bringing it about questions because I've now thrown in extra information or because I've, I've twisted words and I said it one way. And if I, if I take this word out, now it means something else.

Dr. John Wade (14:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (15:10)
But I remember sitting there in the space, really wrestling with it. But I couldn't have come to a resolve if I hadn't stopped to really wrestle with that question and to figure out what it was. again, knowing I'm by myself, like I was in a room surrounded by people.

I could have asked anybody, but then I'm gonna get at least 100 different answers from 100 different people. And I might even get some people who just engage in this well with me kind of mentality. So it's not helping me. I just need to sit with this feedback and then ask the question, what is it that's not working? so I do believe that...

Dr. John Wade (15:35)
near for sure.

you

Dr. TiffianyAnn (15:54)
when people quit, aside from life situations, When they are comfortable accepting ABD, they accepted not wrestling with the question. Would you agree?

Dr. John Wade (16:07)
Yes, in

I think, I think they probably stopped asking themselves, you know, the two tenants of getting a PhD in EDD, which is number one, you know, if somebody asks you, you're talking about your work, you know, and my chair was infamous for this, he would say, so what? you have to be able to answer the so what's right.

And you have to be able to answer the whys. And I think they probably stopped asking themselves, okay, you know, why am I struggling here or why, why is it okay that I feel like stopping? And so this is where I feel like people need the most guidance. And for whatever reason, they, don't have the resources available to them or B they're just afraid of asking for help. And, or C.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (17:03)
Okay.

Dr. John Wade (17:05)
Maybe they're not afraid of asking for help. They just don't know who to ask for help. And I think if we could, you know, come up with something, a platform, you know, a list of, you know, people, know, a list of people simple as a list of people to call and say, Hey, I'm a PhD, PhD student on the East coast. You know, I saw your thing here.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (17:21)
Mmm.

Dr. John Wade (17:27)
I have some questions for you, just be, an unbiased resource for people to get through these times where maybe talking to somebody might get them over the edge and they'll finish. You know what I'm saying? so, just feel, you know, like I said, for me, was like, I don't think I ever...

Dr. TiffianyAnn (17:40)
I like that.

Dr. John Wade (17:52)
I don't think I ever seriously entertain the idea of quitting ever. There were days where reading my methodologist feedback, I'd be like, what am I doing here? banging my head on the desk and going on a rant with my chair via text message.

but my chair was always there for me and he'd be like, talk me off the ledge or just like, let's try it this way or let me put you in touch with X because they did this. Or the other thing that he did that I think helped me tremendously was he sent me multiple exemplar dissertations in the beginning.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (18:33)
Okay.

Dr. John Wade (18:34)
Right. So I had like three quantitative correlational predictive. dissertations that had been published in the last three years They pretty much mirrored. Not the subject matter, but like the outline of my study was like vastly the same. And so.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (18:50)
Okay.

Dr. John Wade (18:51)
When I was struggled, would have the exemplar dissertation up on one side of my screen and I would have mine right next to it. And I would literally go paragraph to paragraph and go, okay, this is how they wrote theirs. This is how they structured it with their information. Okay, what am I doing differently that's making the methodologues or AQR say this?

Dr. TiffianyAnn (19:14)
right.

Dr. John Wade (19:16)
I would try to dissect that as much as possible before I started writing anything else again. And once I feel like I had a good grasp on the differences between mine, how the exemplar looked and was able to be published and passed through AQR and stuff, Then I was like comfortable with, okay, I need to like remove this sentence completely. I need to put this sentence above this one. I need to add in another citation here because you know,

I'm making two claims and I didn't put any proof of anything in there. ⁓ and I just literally did that section by section by section. you know, and I know like a lot of people like, especially when it comes to chapter four, right. And that's what predominantly everybody says is the hardest probably right next to chapter two, right. is the statistical stuff. so.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (19:54)
yeah.

Dr. John Wade (20:07)
A lot of people like pay statisticians to help them and stuff like that. And I didn't do that. I had an editor who saved me.

probably 100 hours of editing, right? You know, over the course of the years. But I did all the statistics on my own. I forced myself to learn it in between Laird Intellectus or something like that. And SPSS,

Dr. TiffianyAnn (20:26)
Wow.

Dr. John Wade (20:30)
I just like forced myself. looked at spreadsheet after spreadsheet, an example, example, and I'm like, okay, you know, what is it telling me? What are the results telling me? Why are they telling me this? And, uh, that was like the most helpful was just forcing myself to learn it because I'm like, I'm going to have to know it for the defense anyways. You know, I can't fake it. Right. So you can pseudo fake writing it potentially, but

Dr. TiffianyAnn (20:41)
Mm-hmm.

Great.

Thank

Dr. John Wade (20:58)
If they call you out during the...

The defense. And if you can't speak to it intelligently, When they start probing more in depth, you're gonna be exposed. And this is not me, And so I just forced myself to do it, And I asked a lot of questions. I jumped on a lot of forums. But I think people need help.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (21:08)
Great.

Thank you.

Dr. John Wade (21:21)
I honestly do in, in, in certain areas. And certainly when they get to the point where like, they just want to throw their hands up in the air and be done with it. I'm like, that's the time you need to double down. yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (21:31)
Mm, I love that double down when you start to feel like

I'm giving up or I have questions. That's the time to double down. ⁓ right, right. And where to go? I mean, call your college called because there are resources out there. We may be a very small population of people.

Dr. John Wade (21:40)
It will have, yep. Which is why people need resources at that point.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (21:58)
but there are so many resources, so many resources. I appreciate you sharing that even. I know I personally did the same thing. pulled five, every six months, I pulled five dissertations that were not necessarily related to what I was doing. More of the...

the design and the method is where I was more focused on.

But

use all the resources, And if you don't know which resource to use, call somebody, even if it's a matter of I have a complaint. Just keep talking is my point. I really believe that that moves us from this loss, feeling of loss, like I'm losing control, I'm losing whatever.

Dr. John Wade (22:20)
I'm

Dr. TiffianyAnn (22:37)
And even if you're thinking about quitting, right? That's a loss. And what you're weighing out is, I take this loss in my life in the decisions that I've made thus far? Or do I move forward with purpose? So how does meaning change when somebody asks the question they genuinely care about versus one they feel obligated to pursue?

Dr. John Wade (22:50)
Yep.

Mmm.

Yeah, I think it boils down to passion, honestly. Like, you know, for me, my topic

I'm super passionate about my topic because it was something that I lived in my professional life for so many years. and having, gone through a few, professional deaths, you know, from people who died doing the job, you know, ⁓ kind of like reinforced my desire, like not to quit, you know, when it got hard. And so I think the meaning changes.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (23:33)
Wow.

Dr. John Wade (23:44)
at that point. Because if you're going through this program and you know, from day one, they say, start thinking about a topic, right? Start thinking like you hear that from day one, right? But like, nobody has any idea what that means,

And I think is where people get hung up at. But meaning.

the meaning of, of, of pursuing your topic that you're passionate about as opposed to, you know, something that is relevant to whatever your career field or field of study that you're doing. Okay. But at the end of the day, is it really affecting you? Right. And so, whereas my topic, yeah, back when I was doing this particular job,

Dr. TiffianyAnn (24:24)
Mm.

Dr. John Wade (24:31)
You know, and if anybody goes and looks at my dissertation on ProQuest, you'll understand exactly what I mean, right?

Dr. TiffianyAnn (24:37)
Wait a minute, can you just tell us what your dissertation topic is about? Because now you've got me questioning. ⁓

Dr. John Wade (24:42)
⁓ sure. Yeah,

sure. So I was a flight nurse paramedic on the rescue helicopters for a long time. And I'm also a pilot as well. ⁓ And so I looked at do various pilot factors, mainly like age and experience levels, you know, do they affect injury severity levels during emergency medical helicopter accidents?

Dr. TiffianyAnn (24:51)
Okay.

Okay, that sounds worthy.

Dr. John Wade (25:09)
Yeah.

so, you know, and like I said, that has potentially to, I've had a few of my friends die in that industry, you know, from helicopter crashes and, you know, you know, and so then that had the potential to keep affecting my friends and myself while I was doing it.

So, but it's always been a passionate topic, right? And so, because we've had way too many crashes, way too many people killed. And nobody prior to me had looked at all the research over, you know, I looked at all the research from 1980. I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. I looked at all medical helicopter crashes from 1980 through 2020, right? 40 years. Now, some other researchers have looked at periods of time.

you know, a decade here and there, but nobody's done it over 40 years. I was the first. and, and yeah. And so when I'm done with what I'm currently doing with, with the binomial logistic regression, you know, I think while I haven't ran the analysis yet, just my gut feeling is there's going to be some statistically relevant information, you know, out to

Dr. TiffianyAnn (26:00)
That's impressive.

Dr. John Wade (26:21)
put out there that that's going to help potentially save some lives, right? In the greater umbrella of aviation. so, but to go back to the topic at hand, meaning this is passionate of mine to me, it's passionate to me, it has potentially directly affects somebody that I know. And so I think when you're doing it for that reason, like quitting is just not enough.

for you, right? No matter how much it just sucks. But you just got to keep going. And this is where I think we really could have the resources available to somebody and say, hey, if you get to this point, or even if you feel like you're getting to this point, then

let's have a conversation, let's talk, let's get you in touch with, you know, some other people who have been in that exact point you are and, you know, maybe ask them some questions on how they got over the hump, you know, and to where they didn't quit. They're not just sitting around ABD, you know, for five years now, right? And, you know, because the accomplishment means so much. And when you're, when you're finally done,

you know, and they come back in your little room where you did your defense and they say, congratulations, Wade or whoever have you. Like, you just realize in that moment, all this time and effort that you put into it was worth it, right? so, you know, so I think the meaning

to passionate topic is really important, really important. Now...

I think, you know, how do we get to that topic? Because you just, you know, as you and I both know, you can't just pick a topic and write on it, right? You have to have a gap. There has to be a need. You have to answer the most importantly, you have to answer the so what question, right? So what, right? Why is your, why do you think that's important, right? And you have to find the previous research that says specifically future research should focus on da da da da da da da da, right?

Dr. TiffianyAnn (28:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. John Wade (28:30)
And when you find three studies that are within the last five years that say that, that's probably one of the happiest days of your PhD career is when you find that third study and you're like, yes, somebody agrees that my topic is worth more research, right? Or it's close enough that it's generalizable,

Dr. TiffianyAnn (28:37)
my gosh, so worth celebrating.

Right.

Dr. John Wade (28:53)
And so when you look at those non-USA studies, you know, and there's a bunch out there, and when you realize that they are generalizable and you can use them, you're like, my god, this is like the best thing ever, right? And I do think having a meaningful topic that's somewhat

either do your job or a personal experience in your life will help you stay focused on the task at hand when it gets hard. And it's going to get hard, really hard. You know, that's what I think helps people, at least it helped me get through it. Because I always hear people who have not been through a PhD program, they're like, well, how hard can it be?

You know, I have my, I have my masters. I'm like, okay. Getting your masters is certainly an accomplishment. Like when I got my MBA, I was like, okay, yeah, I did something worthwhile. But now when I compare the two, there's just no comparison, right? It's not even like even remotely the same or you know, it's just not. And so it's worth it to keep going, but the meaning of your topic I think is really important.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (29:59)
that a dissertation can still be successful if it answers the wrong question?

Dr. John Wade (30:11)
yeah, because for sure. like if you read, I'll use mine as an example. So ultimately, because I did not use a binomial logistic regression analysis and I could not parse my data through categories in my dissertation, I was not able to really parse out whether the pilot factors are playing a role in the, in the outcomes of, know, whether these accidents are fatal or, know, ⁓ they got mild injuries, major injuries or their

So what I did, which honestly I thought I was a genius at the time, yeah, you know, my, used, I took, I added up all the injuries, so like there's usually three people on a helicopter, maybe sometimes four. And I assigned, based on previous research, everybody got a one, two, three, or a four based on their level of injury severity, right?

Dr. TiffianyAnn (30:43)
You work.

Dr. John Wade (31:05)
And so I had the genius idea of using the mean of those people, you know, as, and then I would take my, as the criterion variable, then I would do up my predictor variables up against that, that mean, right? Well, what we came to find out at the end of chapter four is the mean is too narrow. And so, exactly. And so,

Dr. TiffianyAnn (31:25)
Four.

Dr. John Wade (31:29)
A better statistical test would have been the binomial, but I couldn't go back and redo it at that point because it wasn't, I hadn't suggested that in chapter three, obviously, but now I can go do back and do it on my own, you know, and I have a lot less constraints on me when you're doing it for fun versus doing it for a dissertation, that would have been better.

for me to do at that point.

But I can't prove that yet, right? Because I didn't not, you know, I ran a multiple linear regression analysis during my dissertation, which is fine because it gave me a ton of useful information. It wasn't a loss, right? We still learned a lot, right? From like one of the big things in my dissertation that a multiple linear regression analysis showed is

I had a very odd phenomenon in that I had a bimodal data distribution. Right. And so the majority of my data in the criterion variable was clustered around fatal accidents and no injuries. So if you wrecked a helicopter and you parked it in the ground, either you were dead or you didn't have any injuries. So, and so my methodologist hit upon that like

Dr. TiffianyAnn (32:29)
⁓

Dr. John Wade (32:40)
like it was nobody business. She goes, you have something really special here because you don't see a lot of bi-modal data distributions. And I didn't understand that at first, right? I was like, ⁓

Dr. TiffianyAnn (32:51)
Sure.

Dr. John Wade (32:51)
And so that is a strength of my dissertation. I believe is that, you know, I'm like, okay, I didn't set out to prove what I thought I was going to prove.

⁓ but I found out a bunch of things that I had no idea that needed to be said or, or shown. Right. And so, I was able to do that. I still think it's a very successful dissertation. and, ⁓ you know, once I use the better statistical tests where I can use categorical variables and put these into categories, ⁓ I think things will be quite a bit different. So hopefully in the next six months, I'll able to get that.

out and published

Dr. TiffianyAnn (33:31)
we're learning and we're transparent about what we learn.

I oversimplified my codes.

Now it just becomes a limitation of my study. Things become exposed and then you then write it as a limitation, but it doesn't stop you through the process because you have demonstrated that you're a researcher,

Dr. John Wade (33:50)
Yep. It becomes a limitation and put it in there. If you were to look at my limitations, I probably got like seven or eight, if I remember correctly, right? And two of them revolved directly around me. One, right? Like, I think one of my limitations was, you know, I can't be sure that I didn't have any personal bias in this dissertation because of my background as a flight nurse paramedic.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (34:00)
Hahaha

Dr. John Wade (34:11)
And so that was a limitation, right? And so even though I did my best to try to remove any of it, you're never a hundred percent sure. Right. so, yeah, but you're right. It's, ⁓ it's, it's the stuff having the integrity to put the stuff that maybe doesn't match us up with what you thought it would be, or that you more importantly that you wanted it to be, you know, putting that, that stuff out there and showing, Hey, yep.

I spent six years to do this, to have this outcome, right? And it might be polar opposite of what you thought it was going to show and that's okay.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (34:39)
You

Dr. John Wade (34:46)
but yeah, just because it doesn't come out how you thought it was going to be, doesn't mean it's not valuable. So, ⁓ I learned a ton and, I think what I did show is very valuable simply because there's just not a whole lot of data in this, in my field, in that field anyways, to begin with, cause it's so niche.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (34:51)
Exactly.

Dr. John Wade (35:02)
It should be interesting. I'm looking forward to finishing this current one up and then seeing where the stats fall,

Dr. TiffianyAnn (35:11)
how do the questions that we pursue in the doctoral work shape our identity often without us realizing it? Do you feel like, do you see the connection I'm making? Like I could see in that moment, you may not be thinking in the same way that you thought when you first started the program, right? Now you're thinking forward movement. This is something I still need to follow up on. I'm going to put it away. I'm to put it to the side. It's simple actions like that.

that I think make a difference, I'll defer back to you. How does that shape our identity when we don't realize it?

Dr. John Wade (35:46)
yeah, I think it really helps your identity as a researcher because when you start this program, you have all these grand ideas of what you wanna do, what you wanna study. And when they say, okay, start thinking about a topic, start coming up with some potential research questions. Well, let me tell you, my dissertation started out with, I wanna say five RQs.

and I defended with one RQ.

I would say the identity evolves over the time. more importantly, as you learn what not to do, as a researcher, I think that's more important than what to do as a researcher is what not to do as a researcher, And so for me, my chair would be like, he'd be like, you know, I think we need to simplify this.

he's like, you're brushing up on four or five research questions. He's like, personally, I think you should have no more than two. And I'm like, ⁓ you know, and then finally I realized one day.

man, he's absolutely right. And I cut all but one out. And things really became clear at that point when you cut out all the stuff and you're like, okay, yeah, I'm just really trying to answer this specific one right now. I can answer these other ones down the road, right? And so I was thinking to myself, okay, I have all the archival data, access to it for free.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (36:50)
you

Dr. John Wade (37:18)
all it's gonna do is take up time. Now, if you go back to my chapter three, I think it is, where they say, okay, your data collection and methods, right? Like, how long is it gonna take you to collect the data? Okay. As a student, you don't have a clue, right? None. And you can read everybody else's dissertations and you can listen to all your chairs and everybody, like, but.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (37:30)
you

Nope!

Dr. John Wade (37:43)
Unless you find a chair or somebody who tells you whatever number you come up with, multiply that by three, right? And that's what you should put in your data collection methods for the timeframe it's gonna take to collect your data. Because man, I'm like, it'll take me three days.

it took me, it took me weeks to get through it. And I said, and I'm, I'm, I'm almost positive my dissertation chapter three says three days.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (38:05)
Wow.

Dr. John Wade (38:09)
if you look at my SPSS spreadsheet, I have over 7,000 individual data points input into my SPSS spreadsheet. And I did it all by hand and all by myself. No AI, no nothing. It's just me reading and me inputting.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (38:20)
my gosh. My anxiety.

Dr. John Wade (38:26)
Yeah, no, it was. so the point being to all this is, your thinking will evolve. And so your dissertation will evolve. And the more efficient you can make it in the beginning, the less work you're going to have to do on the back end. I guess had like an epiphany one day

we're trashing these last four research questions and I can answer them a different day. this is going to get me on making a robust dissertation question as it is, but I don't need to spend the time or the energy doing the other ones when I can just do this one and keep writing. my chair was like, Absolutely. And even my methodology was, think was happy.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (39:00)
You

So the question becomes less about what I'm studying and more about who am I becoming by studying it. ⁓ So how does the community influence the kind of questions that people feel safe asking or afraid to ask?

Dr. John Wade (39:03)
Yes. So you're thinking will evolve. 100%.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (39:22)
We've talked a little bit about systems, right? And so I'm curious.

Dr. John Wade (39:29)
So.

I think the community boils down to,

does whatever support system you're using or your committee, do you have that one person that you feel comfortable asking anything to, regardless if you feel like it's stupid or not, or you might feel like, okay, I'm a PhD student, I'm three years into this, I should know this stuff. But that's not necessarily true, As you said yourself, you're still a student, you have to remind yourself you're still a student. Now you're held.

to really high expectations,

If you need to be spoon-fed information at this PhD level, then you might struggle, honestly. And so this is where not being afraid to ask questions is really helpful. so, you know, for me, again, that was my chair.

many times we text him at 11 o'clock at night and be like, Hey, you know, I'm, sitting here banging my head on the wall, trying to finish this, this, this, you know, chapter three paragraph, whatever it is, you know, if I send you the paragraph, can you read it real quick and let me know if I'm on the right track? Right. And many times he would do that. Right. I didn't have to send them the whole thing. I guess coffee and pasted what I was writing and say, Hey,

What do you think? And he would, and he was very brief in his responses. He'd be like, it's perfect. Or one sentence would be like, have you considered X, Y, Z? And that would be enough to like go, Nope, I certainly didn't. You know what I mean? And then the other, I, the other place where I think it's very important and I think it's very underutilized in doctoral programs are the librarians.

I cannot stress enough how important the librarians are for you to use. you can ask them any question and those guys are so in tune with everything and they're all extremely competent and they will find you anything basically that you're asking for or give them a day or two

you if you call them and say, Hey, I'm doing this topic, this methodology, this design. I can't find much on this. What do you have? And they'll be like, hold my beer,

I think being able to ask the librarians anything or for help is bar none. One of the top things that a PhD, the EDD student, can learn early in the process is that for sure, because they might be embarrassed asking their chair, their committee, especially earlier in the game,

or you might feel like you have imposter syndrome but the librarian, you know, they're just there to help and they're really good at their jobs.

if you've not talked to your librarian, I highly suggest you get on the phone with them on the next business day, or at least send them an email outlining what you're doing, what you need.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (42:35)
I don't know every structure of every institution, but a librarian may know of some, if you're struggling with word, I have a resource for that. Or if you're struggling with, you know, I don't know what it could possibly be, but word grammar, like I know that our institution has, you know, grammar tutorials and stuff like that. A friend of mine has used several of them.

Dr. John Wade (42:44)
Yep, oh, I heard it.

Yep. Yep.

Yep.

⁓ yeah.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (42:59)
just to go back to the basics. So there's

such an invaluable resource. What responsibility, because I know you've talked about this from a leadership perspective, kind of, what responsibility do you think mentors and institutions have in making space for unfinished questions?

Dr. John Wade (43:04)
percent.

Yeah, I remember like when you sent the thing and reading that question initially, I think that's the question that gives me like the most pauses. How are you defining responsibility, number one,

I think your committee has the responsibility, even though like you're not their only student, They all have multiple students that they're facilitating plus their regular day jobs, And so, you know, no doubt they have a lot on them. But at the end of the day, I feel like that's what they signed up for, And I would hope that none of them have forgotten their process of going through,

writing a dissertation. And so I feel, I feel like have a big responsibility to the students they take on to, you know, maybe look out for them. As we both know, mental health is a really big issue these days, and there's a really big spotlight on it. And maybe I think,

Maybe they could take a more proactive approach into, you know, just connecting with their learners on maybe a more personable level, just to like make sure, hey, we know this is tough. We know there's going to be days where you're just going to like scream at the monitor.

and not understand a word of what we're saying to you or why, right? And it, you know, a lot of this, you're to have to figure out on your own. And, ⁓ I think if you just take the time to connect with these people on a personal level, you know, I think that helps them potentially could help them, you know, not quit to go back to the meeting of the, of the podcast to begin with, you know, to, not be satisfied with ABD, right?

So I think, you know, when I talk to my students that I edit for, you know, I can always tell when they're like really struggling, especially like the one who, you know, wants to swap out their chair, right? And I just started like, okay, well, why do you think that? You know what I mean? Like, you know, is it really the chair or is it just your perception? Is it because you're not understanding, you know,

Or maybe you got through your master's program without too much of an issue, right? And now that you're struggling with dissertation phase, know, dissertation phases is designed to be hard, right? It's what leads everybody else out, right? And it's why only 1.8 % of the population has a PhD, right? And so, um, you know, I always try to make sure it is like, do they understand the background?

of what a dissertation phase is. they, and I really try to like level set their expectations outside of their chair, setting expectations because I find that most people's expectations are wildly different than what the reality of dissertation phase is going to be. And especially I would say not to lump them all into one category, but I would say the younger generations who I've spoken to.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (46:20)
Yeah.

you

Dr. John Wade (46:39)
going back to if they can't get the answer really fast, they're like, they almost have decision paralysis at that point, right? They're like, my God, Google didn't tell me what to do, or Google didn't tell me, you know, what the answer or then they told me that the answer is but and I put that but now, you know, the chair comes back or the methodologist comes back and said, it's not quite good enough or it needs to be rewritten. Okay, and so and I don't think they're expecting that.

Right. They're expecting to, okay, well, my master's program, I got the answers right. And that was good enough. That's not good enough anymore. Right. And, and so if that's your expectations, your expectations are wildly out of balance with what the reality of a PhD program is going to be. And certainly wildly out of balance of how writing a dissertation is going to go. And especially the difficult chapters, chapter two.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (47:15)
Great.

Great, great.

Dr. John Wade (47:37)
the lit review and then chapter four, you know, your analysis and results, right. And so, I think those two chapters really hurt people for lack of a better term. And I find at least with my, my students that, they, struggle.

And this is, find that maybe you do too. Like I find a lot of people write, like they talk.

or they're writing like they're talking to somebody else. And I'm like, that's never gonna work. You're never gonna get through your PhD dissertation if you're writing like you're talking to somebody else.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (47:57)
you

Dr. John Wade (48:08)
so,

I really try to like level set expectations, you know, and outside of their chair. And so because, you know, the chair is meant to guide you, it's not meant to handhold you, it's not meant to spoon feed you. They're going to give you information that you're going to like, I don't know if that was helpful. You know what I mean? you know, and so

Dr. TiffianyAnn (48:36)
You

Dr. John Wade (48:40)
There's going to be a lot of self doubt. And a lot of times where you're just like, man, I am stuck, but having these other, could go back to having these other extra resources, the library exemplars, I cannot express how important the exemplars were to me. I would just go back and read those ad nauseum until, and then I would read what I wrote and then I'm like, why am I stuck? You know, and then it would, and then finally it would come to me, right? Like what to do, but.

having those resources instead of just being stuck and getting, you know, pissed off at the world, right? And, and, and mad at your chair and mad at your methodologist and why are they picking on me? or why is it not good enough? Because they're used to it being good enough, It was good enough in their master's program. But the enemy of great is good enough. so you can't be satisfied with good enough. It has to be great.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (49:25)
great.

Dr. John Wade (49:33)
in a doctoral program. I just don't think people's expectations are level set early enough, or if they are, they're just not getting it. They just don't understand that. And they don't understand, well, it was good enough in my master's program. Why is it not good enough now? And I'm like, well, you're not in a master's program anymore.

I found this out the hard way during my program. And so I had to adjust my thinking and my meaning, and I had to make sure that my thinking was evolving and not just staying narrow minded. Right. And so that's what you're supposed to do as a doctoral PhD, right. Is you're always supposed to be objective.

as much unbiased as you can muster, And so I'm always trying to ask myself, okay, am I not understanding it because I'm just being closed off and just, I'm just upset? Or do I just truly don't understand the concepts, There's a difference there, And so that's what I've always tried to do. And I try to do that every day in my, even like in my personal life. And I'm like dealing with my son or

Dr. TiffianyAnn (50:36)
great.

Dr. John Wade (50:44)
you whoever, And I'm like, okay, am I trying my being objective enough? Or am I just being an old 52 year old? Gen X who's stubborn, you know what I mean? And then, and there's days I am right. And so, but I'm, I think, as you said, going through this is how it's changed me as a person is allowed my thinking to evolve. And it's allowed myself,

Dr. TiffianyAnn (50:53)
you

Dr. John Wade (51:08)
to being able to critically think your way through the days when it's difficult and you feel like quitting. That's when you have to be able to really do a critical self analysis as to why you want to quit, And is it the material? Is it your expectations? You know, whatever, and this is where having the resources to help you through that, whichever.

section that you're struggling with is invaluable.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (51:36)
Yeah, thank you so very much for sharing all of that. I certainly don't ask the question about the responsibilities of the committee to trap anybody into some kind of commitment level they don't belong in. So I really appreciate the fact that you've kind of, that you shared not only your perspective, but your experience with that.

Dr. John Wade (51:39)
Yeah.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (51:59)
I think it's very common that we put too much responsibility on our committee and not enough on our own, And I think maybe the work isn't about finding the right answers quickly, but about staying with the question long enough to be changed by it. So I thank you so very much, John, for exploring this idea of what is the real question. ⁓ I think...

Dr. John Wade (52:23)
Yep, no problem.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (52:25)
that's, I mean, we probably just hit on a segment of something we could probably go on for days about this,

Dr. John Wade (52:30)
Sure.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (52:31)
I appreciate your time, Dr. Wade, and we will talk again.

Dr. John Wade (52:32)
right, sounds great. No problem.

All right, sounds good. Thank you guys.

Dr. TiffianyAnn (52:39)
As we close this conversation, I keep returning to one central idea. Most doctoral learners don't quit because they aren't capable. They leave because the question they're carrying no longer has space to be explored. In today's episode, Dr. Wade reminded us that the dissertation is not just a product, it's a process of becoming. One that asks us to wrestle with uncertainty, to seek support.

to revisit meaning and to remain honest about what we do and do not understand. Maybe the real work isn't about answering the question perfectly. Maybe instead, it's about staying with the question through frustration, feedback, misalignment and growth long enough to be shaped by it. If you're listening today and finding yourself stuck, discouraged or quietly wondering whether you can keep going.

Let this be your reminder, you are not alone. You are not behind. Reach out, ask for help. Talk to your resources in your college. Revisit your why. And most importantly, do not stop asking the questions that matter. Thank you for spending time with us.